44 replies to this topic

[Biffard]

MUSCLE classification provided by General Veers: http://blog.uofmuscl...de-peer-review/

MUSCLE pictures provided by Soupie: http://soupie.little...CLEnumbers.html

There are a total of 137 confirmed Class A figures. Breakdown by color is as follows:

Purple = 29 Figures

 001 Purple.jpg   5.29K   62 downloads  002 Purple.jpg   4.88K   37 downloads  003 Purple.jpg   6.58K   32 downloads  015 Purple.jpg   5.17K   44 downloads  016 Purple.jpg   6.44K   41 downloads  019 Purple.jpg   5.66K   41 downloads  029 Purple.jpg   5.36K   39 downloads  040 Purple.jpg   5.13K   48 downloads  041 Purple.jpg   4.95K   50 downloads  056 Purple.jpg   4.48K   43 downloads  060 Purple.jpg   4.88K   38 downloads  077 Purple.jpg   7.21K   43 downloads  093 Purple.jpg   5.54K   61 downloads  106 Purple.jpg   30.59K   69 downloads  107 Purple.jpg   23.2K   62 downloads  109 Purple.jpg   5.97K   66 downloads  123 Purple.jpg   5.1K   57 downloads  138 Purple.jpg   5.27K   55 downloads  143 Purple.jpg   5.7K   33 downloads  145 Purple.jpg   5.1K   33 downloads  149 Purple.jpg   5.1K   62 downloads  151 Purple.jpg   5.12K   89 downloads  152 Purple.jpg   5.2K   81 downloads  153 Purple.jpg   4.92K   74 downloads  154 Purple.jpg   5.28K   73 downloads  155 Purple.jpg   4.99K   69 downloads  156 Purple.jpg   5.15K   46 downloads  157 Purple.jpg   7.28K   47 downloads  199 Purple.jpg   5.55K   48 downloads

Red = 23 Figures (and possibly 1 more)

 010 Red.jpg   6.77K   53 downloads  013 Red.jpg   5.78K   49 downloads  024 Red.jpg   6.06K   34 downloads  025 Red.jpg   6.8K   42 downloads  038 Red.jpg   5.26K   39 downloads  048 Red.jpg   5.22K   28 downloads  049 Red.jpg   7.23K   17 downloads  051 Red.jpg   6.04K   26 downloads  053 Red.jpg   6.9K   31 downloads  068 Red.jpg   32.93K   48 downloads  085 Red.jpg   5.1K   40 downloads  104 Red.jpg   6.16K   36 downloads  108 Red.jpg   5.13K   33 downloads  110 Red.jpg   6.32K   44 downloads  112 Red.jpg   5.8K   68 downloads  113 Red.jpg   5.5K   78 downloads  116 Red.jpg   5.3K   61 downloads  125 Red.jpg   15.2K   45 downloads  red 131.jpg   17.44K   5 downloads  133 Red.jpg   6.66K   33 downloads  134 Red.jpg   32.65K   28 downloads  red 135.jpg   17.48K   12 downloads  136 Red.jpg   18.95K   37 downloads  139 Red.jpg   32.98K   33 downloads  140 Red.jpg   6.18K   38 downloads

Salmon = 21 Figures

 060 Salmon.jpg   3.82K   49 downloads  064 Salmon.jpg   5.57K   45 downloads  072 Salmon.jpg   6.69K   32 downloads  076 Salmon.jpg   4.87K   30 downloads  077 Salmon.jpg   5.54K   30 downloads  085 Salmon.jpg   5.58K   28 downloads  090 Salmon.jpg   6.67K   26 downloads  106 Salmon.jpg   5.92K   27 downloads  107 Salmon.jpg   5.06K   26 downloads  108 Salmon.jpg   4.84K   23 downloads  109 Salmon.jpg   5.36K   29 downloads  110 Salmon.jpg   4.9K   24 downloads  112 Salmon.jpg   4.82K   21 downloads  113 Salmon.jpg   6.43K   27 downloads  116 Salmon.jpg   5.97K   23 downloads  156 Salmon.jpg   4.85K   28 downloads  165 Salmon.jpg   5.34K   37 downloads  167 Salmon.jpg   4.9K   45 downloads  179 Salmon.jpg   4.98K   34 downloads  199 Salmon.jpg   6.4K   27 downloads  232 Salmon.jpg   4.78K   32 downloads

Dark Blue = 17 Figures (and possibly 1 more)

 011 Dark Blue.jpg   6.31K   41 downloads  018 Dark Blue.jpg   5.14K   33 downloads  022 Dark Blue.jpg   5.71K   27 downloads  040 Dark Blue.jpg   33.68K   34 downloads  047 Dark Blue.jpg   5.74K   45 downloads  071 Dark Blue.jpg   4.3K   38 downloads  073 Dark Blue.jpg   32.4K   33 downloads  075 Dark Blue.jpg   6.62K   22 downloads  086 Dark Blue.jpg   5.08K   26 downloads  092 Dark Blue.jpg   6.26K   25 downloads  097 Dark Blue.jpg   5.71K   22 downloads  114 Dark Blue.jpg   4.15K   27 downloads  blue 140.jpg   13.84K   12 downloads  168 Dark Blue.jpg   4.65K   49 downloads  221 Dark Blue.jpg   7.24K   38 downloads  223 Dark Blue.jpg   6.31K   35 downloads  224 Dark Blue.jpg   6.56K   29 downloads  228 Dark Blue.jpg   6.1K   25 downloads  231 Dark Blue.jpg   4.33K   25 downloads

Magenta = 17

 017 Magenta.jpg   4.31K   30 downloads  021 Magenta.jpg   5.8K   35 downloads  026 Magenta.jpg   5.05K   29 downloads  043 Magenta.jpg   6.27K   25 downloads  044 Magenta.jpg   6.34K   24 downloads  054 Magenta.jpg   4.85K   24 downloads  067 Magenta.jpg   6.29K   26 downloads  103 Magenta.jpg   6.54K   30 downloads  104 Magenta.jpg   4.9K   37 downloads  125 Magenta.jpg   5.28K   30 downloads  134 Magenta.jpg   5.43K   33 downloads  135 Magenta.jpg   4.94K   51 downloads  136 Magenta.jpg   4.87K   45 downloads  161 Magenta.jpg   6.65K   42 downloads  165 Magenta.jpg   5.38K   32 downloads  167 Magenta.jpg   5.16K   21 downloads  179 Magenta.jpg   4.83K   27 downloads

 

Green = 16 Figures

 042 Green.jpg   6.65K   31 downloads  050 Green.jpg   4.51K   43 downloads  163 Green.jpg   11.48K   43 downloads  164 Green.jpg   4.48K   34 downloads  166 Green.jpg   6.34K   31 downloads  168 Green.jpg   5.54K   26 downloads  172 Green.jpg   4.14K   22 downloads  174 Green.jpg   4.43K   33 downloads  182 Green.jpg   5.43K   30 downloads  183 Green.jpg   6.07K   27 downloads  185 Green.jpg   6.98K   26 downloads  186 Green.jpg   30.76K   20 downloads  187 Green.jpg   4.5K   28 downloads  189 Green.jpg   4.2K   34 downloads  190 Green.jpg   4.56K   38 downloads  191 Green.jpg   4.5K   34 downloads

Light Blue = 14

 019 Light Blue.jpg   5.26K   27 downloads  020 Light Blue.jpg   4.67K   27 downloads  023 Light Blue.jpg   4.83K   34 downloads  031 Light Blue.jpg   5.36K   36 downloads  033 Light Blue.jpg   5.34K   45 downloads  035 Light Blue.jpg   5.3K   45 downloads  036 Light Blue.jpg   6.14K   41 downloads  046 Light Blue.jpg   4.94K   32 downloads  060 Light Blue.jpg   4.63K   43 downloads  061 Light Blue.jpg   5.66K   54 downloads  082 Light Blue.jpg   4.89K   51 downloads  143 Light Blue.jpg   5.74K   47 downloads  145 Light Blue.jpg   5.19K   44 downloads  157 Light Blue.jpg   5.92K   36 downloads


Orange = 0

Edited by fuzzbuster, 24 March 2021 - 05:44 PM.
Updated list to reflect unconfirmed figures

[Biffard]

My first post is still being validated but I think I have them all. Would a moderator please pin this in the MUSCLE section? It makes it so much easier to check ebay auctions when we have this info available and easy to access.

 

Thanks!

Edited by Biffard, 06 October 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[jkaris]

Epic!

Great job Biffard!

[walker13.1]

Nice work Biffard!

[Rubberhammer]

Sweet!

[bkny6978]

Great work! Isnt Red 85 a class A figure too? And also Magenta 134?

Edited by bkny6978, 06 October 2013 - 10:37 PM.

[jmckinnon316]

Great effort. Don't think 27p, 39p, 101p, 134p are class A though, are they?

Edited by jmckinnon316, 07 October 2013 - 12:06 AM.

[ALLSPORTDVD]

I think there are many differing opinions on which figures are Class A and which are not.

 

I happen to think the purple figures 68, 104, 125, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 139, 140 are Class A (due to every single one of these I have ever seen resided in a Canadian lot) whereas others believe their Magenta counterparts are Class A

 

That is just 1 example......

 

Although this is a great idea and nice work, which figures are Class A figures are not set in stone for easy reference

[Matlock]

This is a long over due game changer,, thanks a billion billford

[jmckinnon316]

As far as Class A classification goes, I am a firm believer that the 'science' behind the cracking of the MUSCLE colour code and the recognition of probable 'trees' that figures came from should form the basis of classification.

 

"I found that figure really hard to get and hardly ever see it" is not reason enough to call it a Class A. Yes, it may coincidentally BE a Class A, but I think we have to be cautious when 'deciding' to just upgrade figures to Class A based on one or two people's say-so.

 

And downgrading figures carries the same risks. Remember that if you decide to downgrade (or upgrade) a figure then, logically, should you not downgrade (or upgrade) every other figure of the same colour on the same tree? Of course you should.

 

Perhaps it's time we considered another form of MUSCLE Database to document what we, the collectors, have.

 

Yes, we have seen it abused in the past but I think we would agree that there's more general information / knowledge of collections nowadays that lying would be made more difficult and, ultimately pointless, should someone decide to go down that path.

 

It's just a thought, but it may help build a more informed community - and we may also begin to see some new patterns emerging...

[Biffard]

Thanks for the comments everyone! 

 

I have validated and edited the Class A figures and my first post is now 99.9% accurate according to General Veers' classification guide. If I have made a mistake, please let me know. 

 

I originally followed a checklist that I thought was accurate but it turns out there were some discrepancies which have now been fixed.

 

I'm glad this sparked a little discussion of whether certain figures should or shouldn't be considered Class A figures. I want this topic to be as accurate as possible, which it currently is based on our available information. In order to make any changes to the Class A figures we need to gather more information somehow and also look at the figure trees for validation.

 

I'll continue to do some research in my spare time but that's been sporadic so it might take a while.

Edited by Biffard, 07 October 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Biffard]

John you took the words right out of my mouth!

 

I think trees are the key to determining Class A classification. My intent is to look through Soupie's MUSCLE archive where the figures are listed by tree and determine which trees and in which colors are Class A figures. I'd also like to see if any figures on Class A trees are currently exempt from Class A status. I probably won't get around to doing this until later this weekend but it should be a good place to start.

Edited by Biffard, 07 October 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[jmckinnon316]

I would love to be a part of this, if you needed/wanted to include someone, Biff!

 

Here's an interesting example:

 

http://soupie.little.../PartSeven.html

 

check out Part 7/Tree 4 - it shows that 002p, 100p, 101p, 102p are 'uncommon'. 

 

It's generally accepted, throughout the community, that 002p is a Class A figure, right? Well if this tree is correct then so too are 100/101/102 in their purple variants.

 

They are either ALL Class A or none of them are!

 

And of course it all depends on our understanding/interpretation of 'Class A'

 

These are actually 4 very interesting figures because, over the years, I have had some trouble with collecting any of them in purple - they were always quite hard to find!

 

Is it because 002p is more desirable (because he's Terri-Bul/Buffalloman) that he has been singled out?

 

Is he really rarer than 100p/101p/102, or is he just as rare (but more desirable), or is the tree possibly wrong.....?

Edited by jmckinnon316, 07 October 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Biffard]

That is exactly the type of information I was hoping to bring to light. It would stand to reason that if 002p is a Class A then all purple figures on that tree should be Class A as well. I have a feeling that there will be a lot of discrepancies similar to this.

 

I'd love to have your help and anyone else's that wants to work on this. I'll see if I can come up with a easy spreadsheet to track current Class A figures and their non-Class A tree counterparts.

 

I'd also like to get some input from General Veers since he probably ran into these questions in the past.

Edited by Biffard, 08 October 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[bkny6978]

Biffard, on musclefigures.com I counted 140 different class A figures. But I love how you put them all on the same page.
Check out that site and see if it helps.

[Rubberhammer]

Why should a figure being desired, more than others, ever factor in to a "classification guide" anyway?
Like the purple claw selling for so much more than the other purple figs from the same tree, when it probably shows up more than some of the others.
It just seems to me that a "classification guide" should place an A, B, C label on the figs based on rarity alone.
The desirability factor would only come into play if it were a "price guide".
If the amount someone is willing to pay for a fig can help determine it's class, instead of just it's rarity/number known in existence.
Then any color 153 should be considered a class A well before, say, a 179 salmon.

[Biffard]

Biffard, on musclefigures.com I counted 140 different class A figures. But I love how you put them all on the same page.
Check out that site and see if it helps.

Thanks! I did a quick comparison and I think my first post is on par with that site and Veer's guide now! 

[Biffard]

Why should a figure being desired, more than others, ever factor in to a "classification guide" anyway?
Like the purple claw selling for so much more than the other purple figs from the same tree, when it probably shows up more than some of the others.
It just seems to me that a "classification guide" should place an A, B, C label on the figs based on rarity alone.
The desirability factor would only come into play if it were a "price guide".
If the amount someone is willing to pay for a fig can help determine it's class, instead of just it's rarity/number known in existence.
Then any color 153 should be considered a class A well before, say, a 179 salmon.

 I agree with this. I think desirability should be excluded from any type of classification. Otherwise, a Satan Cross could be considered a Class A and we already know that he is a fairly common figure that shows up on ebay several times a month.

 

The difficult part for re-organizing the classification would be gathering accurate data on which figures are truly "Class A". Another difficulty would be re-defining what constitutes a Class A, B, and C figure.

 

However, don't take this post too literally because I am not recommending we re-define Veer's classification guide. I want to better understand Class A figures based on trees before we even talk about removing/adding figures to the current guide.

 

Re-defining the entire A,B, & C classification structure is something I probably don't want to take on as a project.

[walker13.1]

I'm with you guys.  Class should be based on level of difficulty to FIND without price/want level factored in.  If there is some way to clearly identify which figures were only originally sold in Canada then I think that would work.  If people want a price check/want factor, I suggest they watch Ebay and research Veers' numerous Auction Watches. 

[Rubberhammer]

 If people want a price check/want factor, I suggest they watch Ebay and research Veers' numerous Auction Watches. 

I say we make a "Price Guide" that shows the value of every Class A figure to be $5.

 

Just for all those jerks that only join the board so that we can tell them which of their figs they can overcharge for on ebay.

 

     

[walker13.1]

I say we make a "Price Guide" that shows the value of every Class A figure to be $5.

 

Just for all those jerks that only join the board so that we can tell them which of their figs they can overcharge for on ebay.

 

     

 

That is one of the reasons the other pinned thread in M.U.S.C.L.E. is for IMO.  Instead of asking, they can click on that, and read the part I mention about checking Veers' area.  If people still ask, then I say we paste a link in their question thread to that pinned thread.

Edited by walker13.1, 10 October 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[Rubberhammer]

That is one of the reasons the other pinned thread in M.U.S.C.L.E. is for IMO. Instead of asking, they can click on that, and read the part I mention about checking Veers' area. If people still ask, then I say we paste a link in their question thread to that pinned thread.

Yeah, I was just being ornery, with that comment.

I think just posting them your link, as you've done in the past, is the best option.

Edited by Rubberhammer, 10 October 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Matlock]

The only thing that could make this list better is if the pics had the numbers in them.or by them .. other then that, this thing is gonna help alot.

[Biffard]

If you hover over the pic it should show the number.

[Matlock]

If you hover over the pic it should show the number.

Awe snap !! good call !!